Who was there: The DICE 2011 "Hot Topics" panel continued on Wednesday afternoon with a discussion between Jesse Schell of Schell Games and Zynga's Brian Reynolds, with G4's Adam Sessler serving as moderator. The two sparred over the idea of "Gamification vs. Gameplay."

　　Games like Zynga's FrontierVille have people pondering just how many activities can be made enjoyable with a little bit of game design. What they talked about: "Gamification" is the new buzz word, the moderator began, before asking Schell and Reynolds to offer their definitions for it. According to Schell, it involves taking something that isn't a game and making it a game. Reynolds added that gamification is when companies use game elements to try to get people to do something they don't want to do.

　　So is something gamified actually a game? Schell said that it's important to understand the definition of a game. His definition is "a problem solver situation that you enter into" and that "you want to enter into." Reynolds then offered his own definition, saying that a game is defined by a situation where a person enters into an activity where decisions are made, and edification arises from these decisions, and that fun is had in the process.

　　Schell went on to note that there are games that people play that aren't fun, and there are things that aren't games that people do that are fun. He then said that the rise in popularity of the term gamification stems from a fundamental design shift, in that companies are moving away from a model of designing things to be efficient and toward design based on enjoyment. All games are designed so that players like them, he said. As such, this is why people are turning to game designers, because this is their specialty.

　　Reynolds said that gamification largely involves getting people to do something they wouldn't necessarily want to do, such as fly one airline over another. As such, it has a pernicious quality to it. However, Reynolds said his job at Zynga is to make something fun and social and then have other people monetize it.

　　Schell noted that the thing about human pleasure is that it's very complicated. People find many things interesting and pleasurable. Out of that, he said that people may do something initially for one reason, but once they are in that activity, they may continue doing it for a completely different reason. Massively multiplayer online games are a perfect example of this, he said, because people start to play for the game's sake but many continue to play for the social relationships.

　　Responding to that social peer pressure, Reynolds said that the negative sides of social games are a fallacy. He said that there is a reason people like social games, which is that we're social animals. People like playing games with people they are actually friends with, though he did condition that by saying Facebook friends don't have to be particularly close.

　　As for what impact gamification is having on games, Schell said that he believes the more people play games, the more they become connoisseurs of gaming. The casino audience, he said, has changed because of games; people are more comfortable playing more complicated games. Schell also said that he thinks gamification will fuel novelty and result in more complicated experiences in casual gaming and that games will become more integral to people's lives.

　　Schell also said that not everything is susceptible to gamification. In fact, he often draws a comparison between gamification and chocolate. While chocolate is enjoyed by nearly everybody, not everything is made better with a coat of it--cottage cheese, for example. Companies have to find the right way to gamify there products, he said.

　　The question begs to be asked, then, if everything is made fun, are people still enjoying it? Schell said that it is possible to have too much of a good thing. Ultimately, if things are well designed, fun can be maximized with a rich variety.

　　Quote: "Chocolate is great…but does that mean we should throw chocolate on cottage cheese? No!"--Jesse Schell, on the importance of gamifying with care.

　　Takeaway: According to Schell, gamification represents a shift in design away from efficiency and toward enjoyment. However, both he and Reynolds believe that gamification is a far cry from real gameplay, but these experiences can still be enjoyable if done correctly.